Record cutting as composition / production

[mrd]

Not sure if this is of interest to everyone but I'm looking for further examples of and to get a discussion going around cutting for composition or production rather than fidelity. Not so interested in direct to disc 'live' performance here but more layering with and composition in the cut itself. So far I have a few areas and practitioners:

Multi-layering using multiple discs:
Early musique concrete pre-c1953 of Pierre Schaefer and Pierre Henry:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTf0yE15zzI
(image is misleading, this is cut to disc)

Les Paul's Lover - 1948 in which there are 8 guitar parts all played by Les Paul and cut to acetate then played back at different speeds whilst cutting the next part to the next disc and so on. Used over 500 discs in the making of this track apparently:

Pre-dated by multi-layered recordings by this by Sidney Bechet - 1941 (although no speed/pitch adjustment):

Pre-dated by posthumous releases of Enrico Caruso (switching from acoustic to electric era and adding orchestral elements on top of original recordings)


More recently:
Janek Shaefer http://www.audioh.com/
Skate - hand placed cuts from modified gramophone reproducer http://www.audioh.com/releases/skatelp.html
on/off - multiple off centre cut of drone (cut by curvepusher) https://www.audioh.com/releases/on_off.html

I'm interested in sound art by people using prepared records too, but would be good to stick within cutting if possible. Anyone know of any other good examples, or anyone doing this kind of work now too?

[piaptk]

Maybe some of this would be of interest. Not exactly what you are looking for, but some of it’s out there. Www.michaeldixonvinylart.com

[mrd]

Out there is good!

Yeah, that's definitely interesting to me and some good looking cuts...

I'm interested in the off-centre cuts you do - the “Eulerian Circles” - they're strategically placed and on different sides right? or is is there an audible bit as the grooves intersect? There are a couple that look like that they have to be cut on the same side...

[symatic]

thanks for the links!

maybe not your thing either becasue it's not exactly PART of the composition as it's done but....

10shun / Tenshun is on here, he uses his self-cut beats in his compositions.
https://10shun.bandcamp.com/

I make records specifically for being used in compositions. The whole side is configured in BPM's that align with the rotation of the record so you can see where you need to put the needle to get a certain sound, and we also put lock tones in there for people to play with.

This guy Ricci Rucker recorded a bunch of stuff to disc from comissioned jazz musicians, and then used the finished record to compose an album.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IRCnrG7WhE

[duomo]

I have a live performance disc cutting project called "SCHNITT" which is working with live cutting and reproduction. I use loops as well as continuous cuts and layer them with the performance. We used that method also for the production of our record (there will be a new one released shortly)
I cut not off center but sometimes I play back off center to get a kind of wah wah sound...

https://schnitt.bandcamp.com/releases
https://vimeo.com/87752370
also interessting:

[mrd]

thanks for the links!

maybe not your thing either becasue it's not exactly PART of the composition as it's done but....

10shun / Tenshun is on here, he uses his self-cut beats in his compositions.
https://10shun.bandcamp.com/

I make records specifically for being used in compositions. The whole side is configured in BPM's that align with the rotation of the record so you can see where you need to put the needle to get a certain sound, and we also put lock tones in there for people to play with.

This guy Ricci Rucker recorded a bunch of stuff to disc from comissioned jazz musicians, and then used the finished record to compose an album.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IRCnrG7WhE

This is good stuff, and totally counts as composition. I'll check it out thanks! Ricci Rucker stuff sounds good.

Cool, know there's quite a few scratch records that are oriented in this way.. is that how you describe your stuff?

[mrd]

I have a live performance disc cutting project called "SCHNITT" which is working with live cutting and reproduction. I use loops as well as continuous cuts and layer them with the performance. We used that method also for the production of our record (there will be a new one released shortly)
I cut not off center but sometimes I play back off center to get a kind of wah wah sound...

https://schnitt.bandcamp.com/releases
https://vimeo.com/87752370
also interessting:

Really really nice, this is exactly the kind of practice I'm looking for and interested in! Thanks.

So, continuous cuts as in locked grooves rather than cutting over existing grooves right?

Cool, how do you play off centre? Extra hole or offset tone arm?

[symatic]

"Cool, know there's quite a few scratch records that are oriented in this way.. is that how you describe your stuff?"

yep that's exactly what we do.

We did one with an artist called Redmist from Chile, who put together a library of instrument samples, and we layed it out geometrically on the disc so you can just drop the needle to any of the short tracks on the record and they are all musical loops from different instruments. with a loop pedal or a band it works as an excellent instrument.



If you drill a off-center hole in a record and place it over the spindle on thew deck, it will playy in that crazy way because the record isn't turning evenly anymore, so the actual speed at which the groove travels past the stylus changes as the record moves in am unblanced way.

[duomo]

So, continuous cuts as in locked grooves rather than cutting over existing grooves right?

Yes I cut on blanks with no grooves on it ...
In most cases I start the cut as a continous cut and end the cut at a specific cue point to have a nice loop.
If I want a off center recordds its like symatic wrote I just drill a second hole in the record ... you then get a sometimes huge crazy moving pitch shift ...

[mrd]

[quote]
We did one with an artist called Redmist from Chile, who put together a library of instrument samples, and we layed it out geometrically on the disc so you can just drop the needle to any of the short tracks on the record and they are all musical loops from different instruments. with a loop pedal or a band it works as an excellent instrument.
/quote]

Sounds great. I'll check it out for sure. Is that a one off for him? or a production DJ/scratch tool?

Off topic maybe but wonder what the consensus is amongst scratch guys for something like this with the visual?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVjeq-KVcbc

[mrd]

So, continuous cuts as in locked grooves rather than cutting over existing grooves right?

Yes I cut on blanks with no grooves on it ...
In most cases I start the cut as a continous cut and end the cut at a specific cue point to have a nice loop.
If I want a off center recordds its like symatic wrote I just drill a second hole in the record ... you then get a sometimes huge crazy moving pitch shift ...

OK, cool. Re-reading it makes sense, not sure what I wasn't getting originally.

I really like the layering in the slowed continuous groove in the video. Have you ever experimented with a tone arm on the cutting turntable too for 'disc delay'?

[duomo]

Yes I uesd that disc delay, I thinks there is no scene in one of the videos.
But its very nice playing the trumpet and using the live delay as a second voice. Its limited because you have just one fixed "short" delay time because the tonearm is fix. You can use another groove to get longer ones but then its harder to play along.
by the way why are you so interested in that topic ? do you have a some kind of "disc composing "project too ?

[symatic]

We did one with an artist called Redmist from Chile, who put together a library of instrument samples, and we layed it out geometrically on the disc so you can just drop the needle to any of the short tracks on the record and they are all musical loops from different instruments. with a loop pedal or a band it works as an excellent instrument.
/quote]

Sounds great. I'll check it out for sure. Is that a one off for him? or a production DJ/scratch tool?

Off topic maybe but wonder what the consensus is amongst scratch guys for something like this with the visual?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVjeq-KVcbc

Haha yes I know the guys that did the visual vinyl. they beat me to it we always wanted to do that but never had the budget.
We put out 2 records in 2015/16 that came with separate center labels, with the soundwaves printed in circles just like that, so the user could line them up as they wish and use them as a sample "map".
The plan was always to print out picture discs with the design on but these guys got there first.
It's a great tool for learning so you can demonstrate what is going on.


anyway, here's a video of me using the Redmist record to make a improvised compostion. I'm using an app on my phone called Loopy HD, and I've also got a tape delay running for fx.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eK0sulFVc0

[boryo]

We did one with an artist called Redmist from Chile, who put together a library of instrument samples, and we layed it out geometrically on the disc so you can just drop the needle to any of the short tracks on the record and they are all musical loops from different instruments. with a loop pedal or a band it works as an excellent instrument.
/quote]

Sounds great. I'll check it out for sure. Is that a one off for him? or a production DJ/scratch tool?

Off topic maybe but wonder what the consensus is amongst scratch guys for something like this with the visual?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVjeq-KVcbc

Haha yes I know the guys that did the visual vinyl. they beat me to it we always wanted to do that but never had the budget.
We put out 2 records in 2015/16 that came with separate center labels, with the soundwaves printed in circles just like that, so the user could line them up as they wish and use them as a sample "map".
The plan was always to print out picture discs with the design on but these guys got there first.
It's a great tool for learning so you can demonstrate what is going on.


anyway, here's a video of me using the Redmist record to make a improvised compostion. I'm using an app on my phone called Loopy HD, and I've also got a tape delay running for fx.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eK0sulFVc0

That was dope! I think I saw another improvise wisely video in some kind of a bar, pretty dope man!

[mrd]

Yes I uesd that disc delay, I thinks there is no scene in one of the videos.
But its very nice playing the trumpet and using the live delay as a second voice. Its limited because you have just one fixed "short" delay time because the tonearm is fix. You can use another groove to get longer ones but then its harder to play along.
by the way why are you so interested in that topic ? do you have a some kind of "disc composing "project too ?

Cool, yeah, multi tone arms for multitap I guess, but that would be fun with a feedback path of some description too...

Wanted to know if there were others doing it now or examples historically other than the ones I've found.. I'm doing a PhD in musical composition and I've got a project on the go but it's early days and cutting is limited - Only working lathe I have at the moment is a little 7inch Vanrock thing so to jump from locked to continuous you have to take the platter off and a belt to stop the advance, could put a kill switch in as well i guess but the platter moves under the playhead so pretty limited options for this kind of working as well as size, mono, basic cutterhead etc. Been doing some fun stuff with it but nothing online yet to see, will be in due course. Made a little hand held acoustic cutter from some bits of plumbing too which was fun.

Just picked up a 16 inch Le Discographe overhead lathe which I'll be retrofitting with some kind of control over pitch and cut position so should be able to do some sync stuff. May well put in some variable control on the turntable too to do some varispeed type cutting outside of 33/45. In search of a decent cheapish head at the moment...

[mrd]

Haha yes I know the guys that did the visual vinyl. they beat me to it we always wanted to do that but never had the budget.
We put out 2 records in 2015/16 that came with separate center labels, with the soundwaves printed in circles just like that, so the user could line them up as they wish and use them as a sample "map".
The plan was always to print out picture discs with the design on but these guys got there first.
It's a great tool for learning so you can demonstrate what is going on.


anyway, here's a video of me using the Redmist record to make a improvised compostion. I'm using an app on my phone called Loopy HD, and I've also got a tape delay running for fx.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_eK0sulFVc0

That's really great! Really like the tonal stuff. You ever just make a one offs for you rather than for mass production?