Harris Cutting Lathe

[mossboss]

Hi all here
After many many years collecting a variety of early cutting lathes, not having time as well as the need to work with them I have started moving them on, Presto Is gone!
One in my collection is a rather rare machine made in Sydney Australia by the above name
Its an interesting machine
Very heavy cast Iron base with an angled geared motor to drive the 20" yes 20 inches, (very very heavy) TT directly via a vertical shaft with 2 flexible couplings at around the 100 rpm with the geared motor mounted on the floor
The mechanical construction is an absolute marvel It has a conical drive platter and another to drive the over head which provides variable pitch! there and variable speed for the platter down to 10 RPM from 100
A really fantastic machine in its ingenious construction I have only seen another one of those beasts Its serial number is A2 no idea how many what year who used them or any other information
It has a WD mono head attached to it, a Haeco Valve amp rack Fairchild Stylus heat control and a few other odd bits
Its now going to Finland to a younger man to get some millage out of it
Next and last will be the Sugden a rather interesting cutting lathe from the UK with a vertical lateral cutting head before the 45/45 style head was generally adopted the same as the Neumann SX45 fantastic head very fragile, cuts are clean as a whistle
Than there be a few Mono heads out the door as there is no need for them around this old fart
Ha
Best

[CutR]

Do you have any images of the harris lathe, would love to have a look at that. Out of curiosity how much are you looking for the Sugden lathe.

[Stevie342000]

The last retail prices I saw for a Sugden lathe was an increase from £200 in 1957 to £250 in 1961. Stereo Sudgen Cutter head models will be rarer than hen's teeth, the mono ones are not common I got two. I doubt the stereo version went much beyond 1958/59 when the 45/45 was settled on as the current standard for cutting stereo disks. Oh those prices inflation indexed is about £5000 in today's money. I never saw a price for the stereo cutting lathe and I suspect AR Sugden did not do many stereo cutter heads, I believe Pye Records had one (they were the first to issue) stereo disks in the UK in 1958. The others followed suit, the majors in the UK EMI and Decca had been recording stereo to stereo on tape since 1954.

The majors won out and Sugden who was the one who revived an interest in stereo disk cutting which he started to investigate in 1952, he used Neumann U47 microphones, as to what tape recorder he used I fail to remember or it has not been recorded and thus lost in the mists of time. Sugden caused enough of a flutter at the Audio Fair(BSRA) in May 1956 as he demonstrated stereo disk cutting (the Quad Electrostatic speaker was also demonstrated at that time - both caused a stir) and the major sent vans to investigate, even Bob Fine (Mercury Records) drove up to Yorkshire to investigate. Sugden put the cat amongst the pigeons and the Major labels whilst working on it did not want the patent going to anyone else. EMI made a major Boo boo, the Blumlein patent had lapsed.

But the patent by Blumlein covered 45/45 & 0/90. Decca UK worked with Telefunken on 0/90 cutter head, there were others as well, so the standard wars kicked in the same as when LP was introduced.

[mossboss]

Yes lots of pics but I have no Idea how to get them in here So step by step guide by any one here? I will oblige Ha Ha
The Sugden? I need to get it out of its spot get about 1/2" of dust of its timber cases see if it is all there I remember missing the weight that is placed on the head It was there but someone misplaced it
Memory is fading, but it will not be over the top price ways I think the timber case alone will bring a bit in any antique store, Ha Ha the contents are for free Hey?
No idea, Stevie?
Also thanks for the insight on Sugden and his innovations, it bought back some info that I had but due to lots of easily explained reasons went into long term storage in the memory bank, the connections got broken, you more or less soldered them back in there, Brilliant man, and on his own rather than an army of ppl such as the big players
That's the beauty of this forum Ppl scroll posts, you see threads coming to an abrupt end nothing there for weeks or months than a silly post brings in gold and opens it up and than some
Best

[Aussie0zborn]

Vic Harris was very well known for his hi-fi cartridges. He never once mentioned that he’d made lathes so seeing one thirty years later was a surprise. He was also one of only three people in Australia who could repair Westrex cutterheads.

You can read about Vic and see a pic of his lathe here:

http://messui.polygonal-moogle.com/valves/NW199510.pdf

http://messui.polygonal-moogle.com/valves/NW199511.pdf

[mossboss]

Fantastic Thanks Mike great read
I bought Electronics Australia as well as Wireless World for years and years I do not recall reading this
I am sure I was still buying them up and in the late 90"s even in the early 2000's
In actual fact i build many a project that they put up
The one that kept me poor was a solid state amp and pre amp and when I was in my late teens earning around 7 pounds a week and bought 4 x OC something or other Germanium transistors for about 2 quid each I still remember the store in Ltl Latrobe street J H Mc Grath They took a lot of my hard earnings Ha
I thought it was magic that these little guys could do at low voltage what a vacuum tubes did with all that high voltage transformers and this that and the other around them
Well that was a little less than 60 odd years ago and Mr Harris was at his prime doing all that for the audio ppl back than, I must say looking at that cutting lathe he was a master in mechanicals,
That Lathe can cut inside or outside by the turn of a knob variable speed and viriable pitch with another knob, a fixed tower for the overhead that send the cutting stylus to the centre for an inside out cut, also a quite intricate but simple way of adjusting the head height from the lacquer while preventing any side ways movement Ingenious
Obviously he must have aimed it at radio stations therefore the 20" odd plater so as to accommodate 18" transcription lacquer discs
Ok that's great a fantastic read and a fantastic machine
Further
On the label it has
Model G2
Victor F. Harris
19 Knocklayde St
Ashfield
Serial A4
I wonder how many did he make?
Looking at it again and again I can say that this is not a first iteration as it has good castings both in Iron and aluminium as well as little intricacies and oddities that can only be developed after many steps, like little sliding dog drive from gear box output to the platter drive to engage or disengage it without turning the motor off
It is well made and solid as
I wouldn't put it to far behind the Neumann or a Scully of the same era but certainly way way above anything else around that time
Thanks again
Best

[mossboss]

Further
It seems that based on Mikes statement I am lucky I have seen another one Harris cutting lathe besides owning one,
That was at a very interesting place with a private "museum" that is a treasure trove for old guys who have been involved in professional audio in some form or another
Like an early EMI mixing console with radial lever pots, Four of them, Fairchild 670 compressors more than one, a couple of Wax Neumann cutting lathes a later model lacquer cutting Neumann A fully operational Lyrec cutting lathe with a 40 KG bronze TT, with a full tube rack Tape decks galore from 1/4" to 2" mixing decks by Neve, TTL etc etc etc, U47 original Bottle mics quite a few like 10-12 all in perfect working order, Vacuum tubes galore Not enough years in a mans life time to play with them I do go there quite often
The man who owns them is also one of the very few people I have ever met who has an inherent understanding of analogue signal processing in both solid state as well as vacuum tube construction, to the extend that he winds his own output transformers, chokes, coupling trannies, also makes high voltage electros and non polarised capacitors as he believes and proves that what you buy today even at the highest end it just does not cut it, I gifted him my very precise German made coil winding machine that can wind coils from the finest copper wire available to really thick up to 1.5 mm, quite a marvellous all mechanical machine without a single bit of electronics on it Just an on off switch, also another gift was another winder that is used for wire wound resistors on a ceramic tube another marvel but with quite a bit of solid state control all germanium of course well before silicon became the material to use, he winds resistors for vacuum tube amps he builds for very few discerning ppl and only by invitation No name No brand No retail or Wholesale sales and only after many meetings and his approval A real oddball Nerd Go figure
Here you are there are still ppl out there just like V. Harris
Best

[Aussie0zborn]

So you have a Harris lathe, Daniel has one, the guy in the magazine article has one and my buddy had one in his lounger room around 20 years ago alongside his Scully 601. Whether that’s the one in the magazine article or the one you bought, I don’t know, but my buddy is 90 years old now and can’t remember who he sold it to. That would make four known Harris lathes unless we’ve counted any twice and that might match your serial number.

The trick now is to find a Nuttal disc cutting lathe. I was offered the original blueprints but they were too big and I had no need for them. The engineering firm who had them have since disposed of them.

[Podorvanov]

Hi. I would also be interested to see the photos. If you don't know how to upload them here. You can send it to me by email. And if it works out, I’ll upload them here so everyone can look at them. slizi.records_at_gmail.com

[mossboss]

Hey Podorvanov
Done Lets see them
Best

[mossboss]

Hey
What's happening with the photos I have emailed to you Podovarnov??
When are you putting them up?
Best

[misjah]

Not as hard as it looks…

[mossboss]

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[mossboss]

thanks, not hard at all lot more pics if any one wants, lmk!

[Podorvanov]

Hey
What's happening with the photos I have emailed to you Podovarnov??
When are you putting them up?
Best

Guys, I was leaving. The photos were on my MacBook at home. I just came home yesterday and came here today to put them out. I haven't forgotten anything. I work and I don’t have the opportunity to come here every day.

[Podorvanov]

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Now I looked at the photos that you sent me by email. They have a small file size and poor quality. So, it’s even better that I didn’t have time to upload them here with poor quality and you beat me to it. Please add more photos here. It is interesting to look at the machine with good resolution photographs. Thank you.

[mossboss]

No big deal my good man, now i know the trick. Ha

[VinylFiend]

This whole post is fascinating. I had no idea there was an Aussie who built their own lathes. Thanks lads for the info, I'm amazed you found it.
Where is this bloke you mention? be amazing to take a look at that gear.
I wouldn't know half of what i'm looking at but if he's in Aus and can fix a Presto when it goes pear shaped that's the kind of guy i need to meet.
That's the greatest fear for a semi Newbie - the machines pack up and I'm flying blind for a local who knows vintage gear.

[mossboss]

Don't despair about things going pear shaped
We can certainly build a brand new Presto or any mechanical part that needs replacing,
We have a fully equiped CNC equiped shop plus the obligatory manual machines and 3 very competent machinist's, as for the electronics we have a tech available that can just about fix anything vintage or modern so long it is audio related
In so far as meeting Victor Harris I am afraid you are a bit late, he is in lathe cutting or audio cartridge heaven
By the way there was another cutting lathe manufacturer here in Melbourne made a decent machine I was told by an old timer, I tried for years to track one down, it proved a futile exercise, Memory fails me of the name but I do remember they where South Melbourne based, May be if memory bank resets Ill get the name. Ha
Best

[VinylFiend]

G'day Chris thanks for the reply and additional info.
Had no idea there was a Melbs based manufacturer, certainly never come across any Aust made lathes until i came across this post.
Took great comfort in knowing someone local knows these machines. do you have a site/workshop??
Have a K8 (needs frequency converter - yes i fell into THAT trap)
and an R13A (platter not spinning) - capstan spins but platter barely moves - may be bearings not sure yet.