Professional Record Cutters

[mossboss]

Hey all
How about a poll for a section here for professional record cutters?
Does any one here considers that it may be a good idea to have such section so pro's can exchange tips tricks spares (as they are getting harder and harder to get) Problems Issues advise and all that kind of stuff
I am not suggesting a closed area at all
However I think it would be a good thing to sign off post's with real names regardless of forum nicknames
This is not for any other reason except that the real name and workplace would go a long way in getting to know each other rather than (coming out of the closet) faster and easier besides the other members here would know or may know the poster
I am sure others would get something out of it as well No doubt
So may be we poll it and see if there are others here with the same point of view
It seems there are enough of us here to make it good
Also I am not aware of any other site so specific to our work
So lets go for it and see what comes out
I am sure Steve would accommodate us if there is enough interest
By the way Even though the forum members here may be around the 10,000 odd if you look at the stats there has only ever being less than 450 posters while most of them less that 10 post's
So it seems that the "pro's" are in the majority of post's involved here any way
So if we go Member list
Click find member
Click by post's
Click Descending
Here is what I found
52 members with more than 20 Post's
30 members with 30 posts
ballance less than 10 post's the majority 1 post
The last poster is member no 418
Strange as it may sound most posts are by pros
No Steve, we have not taken over
Cheers
Chris Moss From Zenith Records
AKA mossboss

[emorritt]

Sounds like a great idea Chris. Especially the "spares" - they are getting harder and harder to come by. If there are some of us who are or have access to a good machinist, it may help to make reproductions of the some of the harder to get parts especially for professional lathes. The antique phonograph community does this all the time and the quality of the repro parts is usually very good. Lathes are getting to the point where something similar is necessary. Electronics can usually be rebuilt and fine tuned by their owners but a forum like you suggest would allow us to help each other in this area. I do a lot of my own service work which saves people like Len and Al a lot of headaches over petty repair jobs so they can give their efforts to the more difficult problems. If Steve could create a 'section' for pro exchange I think it would be great.

Eric at 1 Up Multimedia

[mossboss]

Hey Eric
Thanks man
I thought that it may be the case
Were are the rest??????
Kevin
Dietrich
Steve
Third
Andyb
and so and so and so on!
May be it's early days yet
It seems so
By the way if it ever comes to pass we need a really good heading for that section as there may be people out there looking not knowing this site
You know a "bot" friendly title
Suggestions please

Cheers
Chris form Zenith

[Third]

Why not...sounds like a good idea

cheers
Third

AKA sean magee abbey road

[Didier S]

A good idea

Didier Selin

[dietrich10]

sounds good. we need to get a few more in board

[mossboss]

Well let's round them up Cheers

[blacknwhite]

You guys can start the VRIA - Vinyl Record International Association -

Then pool your resources & get "big & strong", to FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT which is sure to be coming: When That Big Music Association Which Shall Be Unnamed tries to pull "dirty tricks" with all the major music licensing companies to BAN/BOYCOTT vinyl records entirely, because The Association is unable to force customers to pay each time they play a song on vinyl, which is what some powerful people in The Association have been striving for with digital formats for years now... (they tried to muscle Apple into setting up iTunes / iPods to be pay-per-play, but Apple fought it, insisting customers "still want to own their music")

I'll be rooting for YOU guys!

VINYL = CONCRETE MUSIC OWNERSHIP = FREEDOM FROM TYRANNICAL TAXATION!

- Bob

[mossboss]

Sounds like a good idea Cheers

[flozki]

yes a pro section would be good.
not that think it is good to seperate.
i really like that pro and amateurs are coming together on that forum
but i think the more popular the forum is, the more spam and junk...
is there increasing junk here or is it just a feeling?

so somewhere with real names, verifyied posters...maybe a good idea.
i dont know.
but i guess the pro scene is quite small. so most know each other and all the real pro stuff can be exchanged by mail as well....


VRIA: hehe. yes. in fact RIAA, IFPI and all the other vultures think that vinyl is dead anyway..or not.
or do they also charge for any blank plastic sheet the artists royalties?

maybe this is the reason apollo blanks are that fucking expensive...hehe.

[Simon]

Well Flo I use my real name. - only joking m8

Now my rant about the cutting industry.

I do not regard myself as a pro cutter as this is more of a hobby for me - but I still know quite a few pro cutters.

The problem I see is getting them to post on here.

When I first started about three and a half years ago I regarded cutting as a black art. And it took me years to fully understand how to cut.

The problem is that only the some pro members share information.

As I said I know quite a few pro cutters now - but they are not on here. They either do not have the time or they want to keep their trade secrets.

The whole cutting industry is a closed market.

The suppliers are like the Mafia generally and do not want to change with the times.

Make reasonably costed $100 to $150 diamond styli that can be resharpened via a faceting machine. not diamond lapped.

Supply good quality plastic blanks at a good price $3 to $8

We have certain people in the world sitting on so much old cutting equipment that is never for sale or overpriced.

Or you can buy this old rusty rack in need or recapping for $20k

It is MADDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!

This hinders the younger people out there to get in cutting as the start-up costs are way to much for second-hand in need of rebuild equipment over five years.

If you start looking at the newer cutting systems in the market there are only two options, one that is to expensive and the other is trying to corner the market.

The cutting market needs to broken open by someone otherwise we may as well call it the black death of cutting.

I think there should be a conference on-line webinar, inviting suppliers and end users to speak and make presentations. I am happy to make this happen.

Invite all the suppliers to speak - some noted pros in the market and the end users both pro and hobby.

This would put the cat amongst the pigeons and may get the supplier to open up and supply everyone and develop new products to keep and enlarge this dying market.

The market can easily cater for the pro users and the hobby DJs etc out there.

Someone or a group of people need to blow this market open.

Join forces to save this dying industry!

[mossboss]

Hey Simon
Interesting post
So what is the msg?
Open the industry? to what? There is not much of it left as you know
Sure there are people out there who want to keep their secrets whatever they may be
That is quite common in any industry you look at anyway I am sure it is not exclusive to the cutting pressing or things around vinyl
After all it is an industry that the sun is setting upon rather than rising
The thread was put up so as to gauge the response or need for a pro section right here so as to capture the views of this small band of people around the globe on forum of common interest
May be than over a period of time some of these obstacles you mention can be overcome
At least open a channel of com's amongst the pro's semi pro's for people who make a living, or charge someone out cutting so some of these issues can be explored expanded upon see other views on it etc
This riaa and other org's have been flogged to death any way I cannot see the value in flogging it here
We all know about that, as well as what you get charged to get a cutting head rewound the kind of stuff that leaves you with a lump in your throat wondering where is the money going to come from
The whole idea is simply stated in the very first post I am of the view that it would be good some others share the same view
So you did not mention if you are for it against it
Cheers

[Simon]

I agree with what you are saying and it is a good idea.

But the industry or scene needs to open up.


Points of interest that need to be worked on via this forum either by lobbing the manufacturers / suppliers or making our own.


1. Over priced masters and dub plates.

Grey Market masters and dub plates are already happening.

Is the price rise due to the cost of materials - or the lack of people buying? as more and more cutters leave the industry.

The $ rate was blamed, but the rate has recovered the price has not changed.

It is still cheaper to buy in the US as an example and ship via air - pay the duties and VAT.

2. Lack of equipment and spares for older systems.

Systems not being manufactured any more that's life.

People stock piling or holding on to stock/ spares ( They know who they are and I am not going to list them here.)

The quality of spares, people being sold bad spares or units. (they know who they are as well)

Overpriced units or spares.

A spares exchange program should be set-up. (board goes down - send it off and a refurbished board comes in the post.)


3. Lack of quality engineers to repair systems.

I can count 4 to 5 people in the world.

Plus some electronic engineers I have hassled.


3. Only two manufactures of new systems in the market.

These systems are aimed at the lower end of the market - most professional cutters will not look at them unless they have to.

Product 1.

Prices high, quality good - not good reports from pro cutters.

Complainants about the lathe unit.

For sale to everyone

You can not make masters on a techniques turntable or can you?


Product 2.

Prices high but better than product 1 - not very well finished but does the job.

Not for sale to everyone - seems to be a vetting system in place.

You must buy all your materials from the suppler of the system.

End users feel intimidated as they are locked into the supply.

You can not make masters on a techniques turntable or can you?

This system has been designed for plastic work as the supply of materials are aimed at this market - Dub plates DJs etc.


Future - plastic dubs.

1. Only one suppler of diamond styli to the end user at a price that should be lower, the other will not sell them if you do not have their system.

A need for one of the mainstream manufactures to start making them for this growing market.

Or we find a manufacturer to make them.

Or the current suppliers opens up the market , brings down the price and supply everyone.

2. A lack of suppler of good blanks

Only one true suppler at this time and they will not supply you if you do not have their system - very good prices as advertised on their website.




The industry needs to start talking or just die in a Walter Mitty way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_Life_of_Walter_Mitty

Anyone want to add more?

[Simon]

section here for professional record cutters

Sure why not but make sure that this section is still open to the non pro's who come on this forum, otherwise it is a closed shop like the current industry.

[jtransition]

Moss boss,
Good idea

Simon,
I bought my first lathe about fifteen years ago and taught myself to master with no internet or hands on help, all I had was a fifteen minute demo on what NOT to do,
In the early days I had the phone put down on me a few times. I don’t think there is any conspiracy just people protecting themselves.
I suppose what I am saying is enjoy it and you will find everything that you need but it takes time.
Jason

[Simon]

Sure it takes time - but it is important that the suppliers open the industry up a bit with regards to supply.

[jtransition]

Which suppliers did you have in mind?

[Simon]

I have already pointed them out.

I know you know all the suppliers I am talking about.

[MEGAMIKE]

wot is the professonal part ,the supply or the lathe.?..
sell youre old shit and get a vinylrecorder .
my 8n is now a cubby house for my son and the other older presto is a door stop,and was used to spin clay..

[Simon]

supply or the lathes - Both

They all need to get their act together.

vinylrecorder is a great system, but has a closed supply as an example.

Is the vinylrecorder regarded as professional? some say yes and some say no.

There needs to be more suppliers of higher end and mid market lathes to allow competitive pricing.

The same goes for the supply of blanks and pins.