New Pressing Plant in the USA

[Aussie0zborn]

Good news. A new record pressing plant is opening soon in the USA. This is the only plant in the USA equipped with Alpha Toolex fully automatic presses, finally bringing the USA in line with European standards.

Perhaps now people like Furnace Manufacturing won't have a need to send pressing work to Europe to have American product manufactured on Alpha Toolex presses? In a previous post there was mention of Furnace claiming to manufacture 500,000 records per year in Europe. Well, they recently won a small business award and a quantity of 1 million records was mentioned (if I remember correctly). Thats a lot of work that American plants are missing out on - and we're talking major label work here.

Good luck to the operators of this new plant.

[blacknwhite]

finally bringing the USA in line with European standards.

OK, now you've got ME laughing too!...

Yes, always good news to see another USA plant opening.

- Bob

[d1rk]

Nice what's it called?

[Aussie0zborn]

We will need to wait until the owners make a formal announcement for further information.

[djlithium]

Pricing and turn arounds better than rainbo or united? My last rainbo pressing took 5 months!

[cymbalism]

it's true though, i've noticed a lot of u.s. pressings are manufactured in the u.k. or germany. pirate press does a ton of metal / hardcore u.s. releases and a lot of fairly recent bits like one of the new neil young, queensryche, my chemical romance, etc., are pressed abroad. i wonder where it's located. i also wonder what acme did with all of their pressing stuff up in canada. i know i'm still pissed i never got my first three masters and labels back from them before they closed shop.

[dietrich10]

ahhh I drove to Acme to pickup all my stampers, labels, random stock etc.


Acme presses went to Thomas here on forum.

Vinyl Factory presses in Dallas.

[Bonati]

What plant are we talking about here? Is this Gotta Groove that has the Toolex presses? I have only sent a few jobs there so far.

[Aussie0zborn]

Like I said this is a new plant. Nothing to do with any other plant. You will have to wait for the owners to announce it when they're good and ready. I can assure you they are serious players, know what they are doing and they will be doing it properly. As mentioned this will bring the USA into line with the rest of the world so it will be worth waiting for but in the meantime it should be business as usual.

[mossboss]

Out of couriosity Mike what is so special about the European standards?
SMT's and Leneds are fine machines still running quite well with lot less issues than the Alphas
I am sure if these guys could get US manufactured presses they would have done so
What is not said is this: SMT's Leneds including the EMI 1400 use standard hydraulic components of the shelve at around 20% of the price you would have to pay for the Hawe manufactured special stuff used on the Alphas
Electrics Same story standard of the shelve stuff nothing special Keep them running for another 30 years
Alpha? NO one produces the Telefrang controller components even Telefrang who are still in buisiness
Repairs! Sure try around the $350 per card for the techos to look at it There at least 5 cards in there 3 I/O cards A cpu and a Diplay card as a minimum
With the spindle attachment another 1 card and with the sleeving unit another 2 so it gets up there I can assure you
So Do Alphas make better records? No
Faster? Yes so what now days that need has been negated
Smaller real estate Yes
Lower cost to run? NO way
Lower cost to maintain? No way
Technical suport available? No way
So please explain to me and others about the European standards
as I do not see at all what it is that is so good to be up to European standards
And you do know that I adore the Alpha presses they are a very fine machine having said that I cannot see the advantage In actual fact it is quite the opposite
It would be interesting to see how long it would take these guys to set up the issues they will be facing in getting these little finicky Alphas up and running, once they do who is going to keep them going for them
Besides who so going to be there in so far as spare cards or maintaining the existing ones
Any way, time will tell
Cheers

[Aussie0zborn]

I dont know the entire answer to this question. You would have to ask Pirates Press and Furnace Manufacturing, USA who have over one million American records pressed in Europe on Alpha presses when there are so many plants with American-made presses in the USA. And Furnace Manufacturing even win small business awards for their un-patriotic activities. On this basis alone, you would have to asssume that there is something better about European technology. Why else would an American have their work and money sent to a foreign country? I don't think its because its cheaper.

The cost of maintaining these machines is balanced by the fact that they are more than twice as fast as American machines, so you have double the output with only half the number of machines (by American standards) and with economies of scale coming into play, these factors combined give q major plant a huge advantage over its competitors.

Only time will tell so let's wait and see.

[mossboss]

Well It seems that our friends in the US of A do not care to much about where stuff is pressed
At GZ according to George (see his post) the 5.4 odd million records pressed there last year where done on manual presses
Mostly I am told by someone who has visited the plant and has seen a couple of auto's as well
Be that as it may the Europeans seem to undercut every one else on price there fore the bus goes there
There is a lot of pressing out of Record press as well all at very low cost
Quick press in the UK shut down just like Independent and Curved a few other plants are struggling as well due to price wars
I am told that a truck load of records crosses the channel every other day ex Holland for UK distribution with around 7.5 tonne of records on board
Same in Germany with Flight 13 and Toolex Service as well as couple of others there and a few are struggling
Good for the consumer? I dont think so The price in the retail outlets is still the same
May be there is no answer at all and it is just capitalism at it's worst form when you think about it survival of the fittest would result in monopolies or oligopolies which is a bad thing in itself
So here we are
The point being unless a plant is profitable it will shut down ultimately when the kitty runs out
Attrition in the industry its the last thing we want

[motorino]

Hey Chris, today the hydraulic market its open, tell me what your problem, proportional valves? controllers? I have 3 old hydraulic engineers working near me and he knows very good the hydraulic market

Send me the hydraulic and electric schemes and the problem

Cheers

[Aussie0zborn]

I think this topic has gone off the rails. To re-iterate, there is a new plant opening in the USA sometime soon and it will be using European technology. Maybe now Americans dont need to send their work to Europe and they can get it done at home?

As far as cost of ownership of these European presses is concerned, let's let the owners worry about that or start a new topic elsewhere to discuss their merits and pitfalls.

As already mentioned, the people behind this plant are not vinyl romantics with pipe dreams. They are well established, succesful and serious players in the record industry. They are not building a high-tech plant so they can sit around and wait for bands to come in to press 300 records... they actually know what they're doing and why they are doing it.

Why don't we just wish them all the best?

[Bonati]

If that's true then I definitely wish them the best. And I hope they reveal themselves sooner rather than later. Sounds like it would be a great plant.

[montalbano]

Hey all

Just to point it out

It is a fact that Toolex presses have been engineered to maximize output. Plus, being probably the most modern presses ever built, they have these 24V controllers equipped with I/O cards etc. and all is automated, so it is clear that you multiply the possible issues, just like in any automated system.
But once they're OK you have the big advantage of saving the cost of one person. Automatic cake forming, weighing, loading, and automatic trimming.
That's value.

Hydraulics.
Yes in some of them (including mine) hydraulics are complex and expensive, e.g. with double pressure system, but with the double pressure system and an accumulator you save a LOT of energy and you will discover it when you will look at your electric bill. Alpha Toolex didn't project anything if it was meaningless.

Then, the usage of a double pressure system or of Hawe valves is not mandatory. Some systems here use Athos valves, much cheaper, and I've also seen incredible hydraulic blocks with unknown valves, and they worked regardless. Alpha Toolex presses work also with a mono pressure system and any hydraulic valve accepting a 24V input. Of course, hydraulic blocks have to be built accordingly. Some plants work with pretty big hydraulic engines giving power to all presses, some plants work with each press connected to its single hydraulic engine. So far as the ram rises in 1-2 seconds, there are no limits. Alpha Toolex provided hydraulics as extra parts but engineered their presses in order to be useable with different hydraulic systems. That's why flow regulators were for.

I am sure that what my friend Chris is meaning is referring to a very intense usage of the presses; in this case I agree that probably the simplier american presses will give less issues, it's just like driving a Saab 900 and a Ford Truck for 200,000 Km; you bet that the Saab will have issues earlier, that's a matter of fact.

Anyway, as for the engineering, thumbs UP for the Toolexs in my point of view. Fast (not so important nowadays) and also cheap, if you find the right engine for your press or your presses.

And best luck to these USA guys. Hope they have a granulator...just to save some rejects they'll have at beginning

IMHO the biggest weak point of the automatic Alpha Toolex presses is eccentricity, due to their three-columns engineering.

While with Leneds and with most of the 4-column presses all centering is set by the 4 screws securing and centering the moulds and by the mechanical end-runs for trimming, and the record moves in one direction only, in the Toolex system with the 3-columns logic everything is rotating, so the centering of the formed record is firstly given by the centering of the moulds, which rotate around one column and are centered by the centralising bosses locked by the handles and by the eccentric bolts to ensure the moulds' parallelism, and secondarily, when the record is formed, is secured only by how firm the record will stay into the unloading ring during its transferring to the trimming unit. This will depend also on the even and complete forming of the flash. There is only one screw, setting the end run of the pneumatic cylinder driving the unloading ring, and in Toolex systems the record's moving is faster from station to station if compared with Lened's system.
So there are various centering points summing and therefore many little off-center points summing or subtracting. The older the machine gets, the harder is to recognize where the problem comes from. For sure, the offcenter issue is typical of the automatic Toolex machines.
But as for the rest, they take few space, they're fast, they have electric extruders (no steam needed), and they are commonly used so most headfucks find their solutions rather quickly.

[Aussie0zborn]

If that's true .....

I wouldn't say it if it wasnt true.

[mossboss]

Hey all
This is getting to be a good thread really May be of topic however in the right section
Despite what has been posted on the merits of machines a new plant is not always a good thing overall for the game regardless
It is a shame really that "new" plants are the end result of another plant going bust somewhere else
As I have already said before plants need to be profitable or else they are out of business.
In my view there needs to be some consolidation in the game as there are to many players for the amount of work that is available in comparisson to production capacity at least in Europe where most of the attrition is taking place
An observation which has not being pointed out is the fact that there are no US of A based plants that are selling gear in recent years but European ones
There are quite a few machines mothballed around Europe which are not for sale or to be sold by the owners for that very reason
So it begs the question is the industry sustainable in its present capacity
Well In my view if the air freight charges where lower than they are today there would be a lot less plants running
It is strange that a vinyl record plant's survival is based on the cost of international freight or else there would be half or even less plants around
On another point we are not doing any promotion of the vinyl medium as a collective
In essence we are just sitting back watching the industry slowly getting smaller without us been active in promoting our product or the artists involved
May be its time for someone to start the" International Vinyl Record Producers Association" with contributions from all concerned so as to promote the medium
Any takers out there?
Cheers

[blacknwhite]

On another point we are not doing any promotion of the vinyl medium as a collective
In essence we are just sitting back watching the industry slowly getting smaller without us been active in promoting our product or the artists involved
May be its time for someone to start the" International Vinyl Record Producers Association" with contributions from all concerned so as to promote the medium
Any takers out there?

That's EXACTLY what I have been thinking...

So as not to futher hijack this thread about the new USA plant, please see response, here:

This is a NECESSARY idea for Survival of Vinyl I think, and needs to be followed up on:

https://lathetrolls.com/viewtopic.php?t=1915&mforum=lathetrolls

- Bob

[andybee]

>> Out of couriosity Mike what is so special about the European standards?

if you talk about quality standards, there is a difference!
and the difference is also here in germany!
If you look at recordindustry in holland, they do the really
best quality in europe, nobody and no plant can beat them!
they offer full service (nearly all vinyl formats available),
togehter with on of the best plating and cutting departments,
they can do a loud 12" laquercut maxi and also a classic or hip hop lp with 30min/side cutting at dmm for maximum performance and
minimum noise.
they also have perfect artwork products!
all together, you get MOSTLY a PERFECT product! (no matter how long the production time is).
you receive most records perfect flat and without any problems like noses, dots, scratches etc. etc.
I can´t beat their quality, no plant can beat them (IMHO), maybe RAND, but RAND offers only 12" pressing, and from now on also DMM, so
not compareable
I also think, perfect working and setup plant anywhere in the world
can also reach this high quality standards, but nobody will do this, because it is simply to expensive!
I try everyday, to make my 7inches more perfect and better,
but it is always a question of money.
also, the galvano is always a problem, even in big plants!
I think, the best galvanic departments are at RAND, RECORDINDUSTRY,
PALLAS and then the others.... I don´t have any idea how the outside EU plants are setup but maybe, somebody tell me

just my opinion....